After doing a lot of investigating about video games and their effect on kids, I realized that limiting kids playing video games has a much more deleterious impact on kids than letting them play video games unfettered by parent oversight. Here’s why:
1. Game time is about respect.
When you tell kids they can’t do what they like, you tell them they have poor judgment. The whole point of child-directed learning is to tell kids that they have a good sense of what is interesting to them and they should respect that in themselves.
I noticed that when people ask me why we don’t teach subjects in our homeschooling, I’d say, “I trust my kids to figure out what they want to learn, and I’ll help them learn it. Passion isn’t divided into school subjects.”
Then invariably one of my kids would yell out, “So why can’t we play video games?!?!?!?”
And the adult would laugh, but I would think, “Yeah. It’s a good question.”
2. Artificial scarcity gives artificial value to game time.
Limits on something enjoyable make the person nuts about the thing. This is true in diets. If you tell someone they can never have sugar again they go nuts about sugar. Most people can manage themselves eating a reasonable amount of sugar and be fine.
The same is true with video games. Once I told my boys they could play video games whenever they wanted, they actually talked about it less and obsessed about it less, because they knew it would always be there for them if they wanted. No begging for more time, no negotiating, no screaming at someone to be quiet because the noise is interfering with video game time. Taking away scarcity took away a lot of the power of video games.
3. Creativity comes from a sense of freedom.
When the kids had unlimited video time they were not as anxious about getting to the next level while they were playing. They didn’t feel a time crunch. They were more willing to try other things with their DS. For example, they tried taking pictures, creating a Mii (their own avatar), and joining multi-player games on levels they were not necessarily working on.
The biggest surprise was that my kids started using the video recorder on one DS to record a kid playing on the other DS. For those of you who don’t know, there is a huge culture of people recording themselves playing video games and posting it on YouTube. My kids love watching those videos, and now that video game time is not so precious, my kids are making those videos.
It has been a joy to watch family tensions go down and creativity go up as a result of unlimited game time.
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Do you have limits on the types of games the boys are allowed to play? I’ve noticed when my boys play sports type video games, they are more likely to go outside when they tire of the game and recreate the game in the backyard. When they play war type games, they are more likely to fight and be irritable with each other afterwards. I’m in agreement with not limiting the time, I just haven’t figured out the limitations on the content.
Posted by Laura McDonald on January 26, 2012 at 10:34 am | permalink |
This is a great question. We have struggled with this issue in our house as well. I don’t limit game types but will not not allow games that portray realistic violence or have a lot of profanity- fantasy stuff is mostly okay. For example – my boys are allowed to play the Halo games which are fantasy shooters but nothing like Grand Theft Auto or Call of Duty which are too true to real life for my taste. It’s all decided on a case by case basis. Fortunately at their ages (10 & 7) they are not yet interested in the more hardcore stuff.
Posted by Karen on January 26, 2012 at 1:42 pm | permalink |
My kids play a lot of video games. They play WoW with their daddy and they play other online games too. (We also play a lot of board games in the family, so this is not surprising.)
All of our computers are in the living room so I have a vague idea of what they’re doing at any given time.
One day I heard Anna babbling to Quinn about ATP and mitochondria and free radicals and trade offs. What’s more, according to my knowledge of cell biology, she was babbling accurately.
So, due to their ability to look for games by themselves, and me letting them, the kids unwittingly learned some biochemistry I didn’t learn until college.
Posted by Gwen on January 26, 2012 at 3:50 pm | permalink |
I agree with much of what you say here but how much video game time are we talking about here? How much time is spent learning on video games relative to other learning methods? I agree that children learn from video games but I think their learning should be diversified so as to come from as many different sources as possible. Let’s not forget and it’s good to know that there’s other things that they want to do and learn as well as things you want them to do and experience such as playing their musical instruments, swimming lessons, skate boarding, etc.
Posted by Mark W. on January 26, 2012 at 7:23 pm | permalink |
For someone who said, less than a week ago, “Panacea? There aren’t those in the world.”, an awful lot of your posts lately show a very Manichean outlook. Kids are different. Some do, in fact, have good judgement. Others will, given the chance, do themselves serious harm. Ask me sometime about my friends who had to stop having wine in the house because their (otherwise extremely self directed and brilliant) 5-year-old son would throw a tantrum if he didn’t get a glass too. Parenting is hard because there is no one right way.
As for video games specifically, I’d just like to second this comment from your previous thread: http://homeschooling.penelopetrunk.com/2012/01/reading-is-worse-than-video-games/#comment-2888
Posted by Bryan on January 26, 2012 at 10:49 pm | permalink |
I’m glad to have just learned the word “Manichean”. It’s a concept I’ve often wanted to express before, didn’t know there was a word for it. Thanks!
Posted by R on January 27, 2012 at 12:01 am | permalink |
I’m thrilled to tell you that I spent my whole freshman year of college studying St. Augustine and the Manicheans. Periodically I pepper my posts with references to St Augustine, but no one has done that back to me. I’m so excited by the reference that I don’t even mind the criticism.
Thanks,
Penelope
Posted by Penelope Trunk on January 29, 2012 at 12:47 pm | permalink |
Your enthusiasm is delightful Penelope.
Since your boys play games together that you don’t seem too interested in, I hope you put the time to good use and get some much needed personal time. Just as they need time of their own, your being your best requires carving out time to reflect and process, then express yourself through writing. I hope this approach brings that more into balance for you. Sounds like this change has good potential to benefit everyone.
Opportunities will probably come your way later on, as your boys play different games, to play with them. I recommend you try that some time. I had to overcome a lifelong bias that video games were a complete waste of time for me, and I’m glad I did overcome it. I discovered that gaming with your child gives you a great chance to do something fun, safe, and inexpensive with your kids. So often the only things we parents do with kids fall under the category or work and chores.
I look forward to x-box games in the the Elder Scrolls series like Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, along with Mass Effect, Dragon Age (all fantasy epics akin to “Lord of The Rings” in breadth) and Halo (more like playing army), not just because they’re fun–they are–but because each one represents an opportunity to enjoy many hours playing them with my son. There’s lots of things we’ve done together as he has grown up, but gaming has provided so many hours of shared time, just having fun together; that is a lasting treasure I savor even more now that my son is getting older.
Posted by Mark K on January 27, 2012 at 4:26 am | permalink |
While I understand trusting our children to learn what they need to learn (we are mostly unschoolers ourselves), there are still things which need to be developed (other than academics and creativity)which I don’t think any person of ANY age can develop except by restraint in the form of RESPONSIBILITY and SELF-CONTROL!!! Sure, I’d love to spend all day on the computer or reading a good book, and would learn so many things from these. However, I have other responsibilities vying for my attention, so I must use restraint, a.k.a., self-control. Kids don’t naturally have this (really!) which is why it is our responsibility as parents to teach them the necessity of it. And guess what? There’s only one way to teach that: give them plenty of responsibiltiy which will of necessity teach them to budget their time. Why should children even have all of this unlimited free time to play video games to begin with?
I am the mom of ten children ages 5-26, all of whom were homeschooled. Two have graduated college, 2 are currently in college, and the rest are home except for one boy who is in a high school. We have always had a very loose homeschool where most everything is learned in a very natural way, mostly through play. Right now my 4 youngest kids are “playing school” since my 5-year-old nearly jumped for joy when he saw the mailman deliver his new workbooks which he begged me to order for him. (Not kidding!) My kids love “school” because it’s not required in a stiff, sterile way. They just learn through play, mostly NOT on the computer or through video games, but through imaginative, hands-on fun, including board games. And there are a LOT of good ones out there which develop deductive reasoning, logic, spatial skills, etc.
That said, they do have responsibilities in the form of chores (dishes, doing the laundry, folding their own laundry, etc.)and a minimum amount of school work (and I mean minimum, as in a little math and a little of anything else); and it is only after their responsibilities have been met do they get the privilege of computer or any other electronic media, and these are still not privileges given every day, but once in a while and on weekends.
They don’t own DS-es. They own cameras. They produce REAL videos. They don’t video people playing games. (And why anyone would even want to watch someone else playing a game is beyond me!) So while you (Penelope) might feel good about the fact that your kids are doing that, I say it’s a bunch of baloney! Where is the creativity in filming someone else playing a game? There is none! You are deceiving yourself to believe otherwise. Maybe deep down you actually feel guilty about your new rule of unrestricted video play, and since they discovered the video button you are telling yourself they are now, somehow, creative geniuses! (Get those boys a camera!)
Hear this: It is okay to say “no.” In fact, it is your responsibility to say no to some things. It really will not damage them or hinder them in any way but will make them people of CHARACTER who are responsible citizens, knowing how to not give in to every passion which strikes their fancy (drugs, alcohol, pornography, overeating, and pure laziness to name a few).
By the way, aren’t there health risks associated with too much exposure to these little DS games? Aren’t there written WARNINGS on these devices? Why would you think you can allow your kids free, unlimited access to something which, in excess, could be HARMFUL to their health? We don’t allow our kids unlimited access to sugar, do we? Of course not! We know that too much is harmful, so we limit their intake. Why should this be any different? Sure, a bowl of ice cream or a piece of cake is one thing, but kids do NOT have the self-control you seem to believe they have. What child would not eat a double portion of ice cream (or even the whole box) if he were allowed to? What child with a sweet-tooth would eat their breakfast, lunch or dinner first (before dessert) if he didn’t have to? Rules are good! They help us to restrain our passions. They help develop self-control.
Kids who don’t develop self-control become adults who are out of control! Where do you suppose all of today’s alcoholics came from? Why are there so many diet books on the shelves? Why is adult and childhood obesity such a phenomenon? It’s because parents are not taking the time to say “no, that is not in your best interest.” (In fact, parents are just not taking time, period! No time to play with their kids, no time to make a nutritious meal, no time to read a good book to their children; the list goes on…)
Grow up, parents! Set some limits! They are good for your children!
Posted by Susan on January 27, 2012 at 10:45 am | permalink |
Susan, you have a pretty disconnected and archaic view of video games and electronics in general. I’m guessing you didn’t grow up with them and you don’t understand them now. You have decided that board games (games you are familiar with) are superior to video games (games you are not familiar with).
I was born in the late eighties. I had simple learning video games that taught me how to spell as well as grammar. When I was in elementary school, my younger brother and I saved up allowances for months to buy our own Sega Genesis and games. Our parents tried it both ways (restricted and unrestricted game play) and all of the points in this article about scarcity = imagined importance are true.
There is almost always a saturation point for most children where they will become bored of games in general. Your fears of raising little robots are unfounded. The best way to limit game play without limiting it all the time is setting up a system where the children earn their games. Kids get bored of games fast. But they will work hard to purchase new ones.
Video games are also educational in unexpected ways. There are plenty of studies out to this effect. Even your basic theme park building game teaches problem solving skills. (For that matter, so do violent first person shooters, but I wouldn’t recommend those for children, or adults). Video and computer games are just as valid as a board game played on the coffee table for teaching the skills kids need to develop.
Lastly, video games are great for kids that have trouble socializing. Neither my brothers or I are autistic or socially inhibited, but we spent our childhoods being raised in different countries. You can play a video game with someone even when you don’t speak their language. You can play a video game even when you are socially awkward and have a hard time picking up on a new culture’s rules. I’m sure some of that translates to living in one culture but having a social disability. That Penelope’s kids will be well-versed and skilled at something most kids play can only help them make friends.
You also missed the point about the embedded cameras. Sharing videos is a social skill these days. Youtube is a network with thousands of niche audiences. The point is not to become the next Orson Welles. It’s to socialize with people who also like filming video games and to have fun with each other.
Just because you would watch their interaction of filming a game and not understand it does not mean you are fit to pass judgement on what qualifies as “real”. Video games are clearly not something you’re familiar with. You should get one of the old platforms for cheap and try them out. You’d be surprised.
Posted by Jane on January 27, 2012 at 4:10 pm | permalink |
Hi Jane,
I just want to tell you that you are so wrong about my views about video games. We happen to own an X-Box. I enjoy playing with my kids on it. Before the X-box we had the Wii. Before that we had a Playstation 3 (or something like that). My kids have had hand-held devices (GameBoy, etc.). So I am not as archaic as you think. In fact, I only place limits on the things which seem to take too much precedence in my kids’ lives, places where I see that they are wasting time. Skype is one of them. Facebook is another. These media are very addictive and time-wasters. That was my point with allowing kids free reign and not setting limits. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not video games are good or bad. They can be both! As far as my opinion about the superiority of board games, I stand by that. Your comment proved my unspoken reason: board games provide human interaction, face-to-face and up-close. They make for superior social interaction and the development of social skills. While I am sorry that you have a social problem, and am really happy that you can have some social contact through playing these games, they are not as good as the real world where people need to know how to make eye contact and deal with others in a live setting. Maybe you ought to invite some friends over for a non-electronic game night. You just might be surprised at how fun it is to play with someone in person!
Posted by Susan on January 31, 2012 at 10:40 pm | permalink |
Sorry! I misspoke yet again! You said that you DON’T have a social problem; you were advocating for those who do. My sincere apologies…
And about the imbeded cameras, I was only saying that filming someone playing a video game is not creative. It is a skill, especially for a young child, but it should not have been put under the category of being creative. Creativity happens when one actually creates something, not just documents something.
Posted by Susan on January 31, 2012 at 10:50 pm | permalink |
One last thought: Penelope, you have given in to your children’s whims. It will make life easier for you…for now! Be warned!
Posted by Susan on January 27, 2012 at 10:51 am | permalink |
I am replying to my own post. I take this back. I see that Penelope didn’t “give in,” so to speak, she just changed her rule and it seems that her kids are not out of control as far as playing all the time as I first automatically concluded. If they were suddenly playing all video games all the time, I suspect that Penelope would say something like, “Hmmmm, well this isn’t working, is it?” And I bet she would then place some limits. Just guessing since she seems to be well-educated and caring, and I don’t think she’d want her kids doing nothing but playing video games all day long. All things in moderation, right? So my apologies, Penelope! I didn’t read your post carefully enough. Now, to respond to Jane…
Posted by Susan on January 31, 2012 at 10:26 pm | permalink |
Well, there’s a big difference between “You can eat all the sugar you want” and “You can never eat sugar again.” Please pick parallels that are actually parallel. They’re more effective as illustrations.
Posted by KateNonymous on January 27, 2012 at 3:41 pm | permalink |
Self-control and the ability to delay gratification are both important factors in being a happy adult. You like to read about things — I recommend that you read up on this.
I’m with Susan. Letting your kids have an unlimited supply of a substance known to be addictive (video games) is likely to have some bad effects on them now, and even owrse effects later.
If you don’t set reasonable, healthy limits for your children while they are young, you are really going to suffer when they become teenagers, and they are going to suffer even more. Children need a parent to set the limits for them. They don’t have the cognitive ability to understand all the consequences of their choices, and they don’t have the knowledge you have, or should have, about what is in their best interests.
Posted by CDM on January 27, 2012 at 6:46 pm | permalink |
Every time I get to liking a new game, I become obsessed with it until I master it. Once I master it, I have no more interest in it. My husband seems to be the same way, as are my kids.
Many video games and people are that way. Now, the multi-user games, like WoW and City of Heroes and stuff like that, take longer to get out of your system. Why? Besides the content of the game, there’s a big social aspect. I don’t particularly like those games, because they’re giant time suckers, but my husband and kids do. Fortunately, they’re self limiting because you must pay a monthly subscription fee. I only let them activate their accounts for two or three months of the year, each month spaced out with lots of school work. During that month though, I don’t limit them. They limit themselves. They go bonkers for the first few days and then take lots of break to play with the animals, play board games, go for walks, and have play dates.
Posted by Gwen on January 27, 2012 at 10:15 pm | permalink |
Hi Penelope, I also let my 7yo have fairly unlimited game time. But we have really strict content limits. He understands the rating system for TV, movies and games. Only G-rated content at this age for us. I was really proud when went to a friend’s house and chose not to watch a movie they had on, because it was “PG” rated. I thing in this way, he’s learning limits, respect for rules and also judgement (we discuss the values behind the ratings and why it’s important to us.) so no Halo yet even though his friends play it. We also impose breaks at set intervals, as recommended for eyesight reasons. And lastly…are your boys into “Minecraft” yet?!! Greatest homeschool game ever! My boy spends a lot of time on Minecraft for free. Great icebreaker for social events – brings kids together when they start conversations and swap tips on their games.
Posted by Fiona on January 27, 2012 at 11:00 pm | permalink |
You might like the “Playing to Learn” blog (http://lynettebarr.wordpress.com/) This is a teacher who uses GBL methods (Games-Based Learning) in her classroom, teaching literacy etc integrated with games tasks. This is not unschooling – it seems to take a lot of time and prep – but it’s an interesting idea. I think with games like Minecraft you can blend GBL and unschooling. There’s a tremendous amount of learning in Minecraft. The kids can do it independently if you get them using the Minecraft YouTube tutorials, or just get them to ask other kids for tips. Thanks to Minecraft, my 7yo now knows a lot about how various rocks are formed, and he also types signs and messages everywhere in his Minecraft village, which involves quite a lot of writing, and it’s all self-directed.
Posted by Fiona on January 27, 2012 at 11:16 pm | permalink |
There are some programming books out there that teach a computer language and programming concepts by having the reader make his or her own video game. Sure it’s tons of fun playing a well made game, but more intellectually stimulating to try and make your own.
Posted by TR on January 28, 2012 at 9:02 am | permalink |
You seem to have reached an epiphany with the “no limits” idea and are impressed at the effects it is having on your children. May I suggest another idea?
Try “No video games at all.” None. Your children have no access to a screen for a month. I bet you will also be impressed by what develops.
Posted by Kristen on January 28, 2012 at 10:11 am | permalink |
I’m a married father of four kids under 6 and felt a need to chime in after reading these responses. It seems that a lot of commenters are missing the point.
I agree with Penelope in that if you set very strict limits, people will generally go to the other extreme. Taking video games out of the discussion, we can see this everywhere. How many times does a person gain more weight than they lost when going off an extreme diet for example? Or someone go on huge spending spree after trying to live frugally for a period of time.
Too much of anything is bad for you, obviously. Going back to video games, if your kids have a problem with spending too much time with games, you need to find out why and not just unplug the games.
I also agree that if you give kids some freedom to do things that they will learn to appreciate those things and eventually the freedom to be allowed to do it. Again, I am not talking about letting them do anything unsafe or illegal. I let my kids have time to “choose their own adventure” so to speak with the only rule being that they have to share, play fair and not hurt anyone. I’m still married and my house is still standing so it has worked well for me.
Posted by Dan on January 31, 2012 at 3:01 pm | permalink |
I’m just catching up here, but I guess i dont get how this lines up with a post not long ago about how you don’t let your elder son have unlimited unstructured alone time — which is what he’d like to do — because it would be dangerous.
That’s not about respect?
I don’t know. I spent a LOT of time alone as a kid and I really enjoyed it and look back on it fondly (and am familiar with your son’s diagnosis).
I have kids. We have video games, altho we put off buying them til the youngest was 9. We also have a weekend house and we have nothing there, no screens at all. For adults and kids. There is a time and place for everything.
Posted by Julia A on February 2, 2012 at 3:26 pm | permalink |
Coming back to this one to share some great info about video gaming addiction (or not). http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201202/video-game-addiction-does-it-occur-if-so-why
Posted by MoniqueWS on February 4, 2012 at 12:18 pm | permalink |
And again coming back to this one with some news about how Gamers come to the rescue!!
“Following on the success last September of video gamers to solve the elusive riddle of an HIV enzyme within three weeks, they have again astonished scientists.
Players of the online puzzle game Foldit have redesigned an enzyme model by fiddling with folding proteins on their home computers in search of the best-scoring (lowest-energy) patterns.”
Linky-poo here: http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/most-popular/gamers-redesign-protein-with-foldit.html
Posted by MoniqueWS on February 7, 2012 at 12:33 am | permalink |
You are delusional. Your permissiveness with your children is sad and I hope for their sake they turn out alright. Young children love and need direction and structure. Left to themselves they become fools. When you take a subject and help your child make it fun/interesting then learning becomes a joy not a task. When children are not taught restraint or healthy balance to activities and desires it gives way to adults that struggle with self control. The very RARE child who may say “no thanks” to the second cookie is exactly that… RARE.
Posted by Carmen on February 8, 2012 at 4:06 pm | permalink |
You know why little kids stay free at Holiday Inn? Have you ever seen little kids check into a hotel without their parents. The parents, of course, carry the MONEY. We have a saying at our house about things that are not going to change, “the sky is blue, if you don’t like that the sky is blue, well, you live on the wrong planet.” Some things in this world are givens and it’s OK for kids to find this out.
There is truth to the concept of obsessing for the thing denied. We told our kids we were not buying video games but they were welcome to figure out how to buy them on their own. Of course, they figured out they would first rent a machine and some games. Great, the deposit on the rental machine is $250. (yr.2000) Hmmm. That Christmas break the kids asked politely if we could rent a machine and some games for the 5 day deal at the video store and I said, “sure, lets see what its all about.” Mostly it was about racing cars, shooting guns, snow boarding and shooting guns and stealing cars and shooting guns and flying jet planes, shooting missiles and dropping neutron bombs. Mostly I just dove my fighter jet into the deck, so I was out pretty quick. But, for five days the kids didn’t eat, didn’t sleep, didn’t wash, one kid peed his pants (the other did take bathroom breaks) and they played and they played until their thumbs bled.
The only comment I made was, “I have never driven a real car with my thumbs, never shot a gun with my thumbs, never snowboarded with my thumbs (remember the Burton swallow tail board) and at 6′ 4″, 265 lbs. I am never going to fit into… Have you ever seen how small those fighter pilots are!” “If you want to shoot real guns we have guns in the gun safe.” After the PLAYgameBoX thing went back to the video store my oldest son was the first to figure out that (in fighter pilot terms) they had screwed the pooch. Hey, he had read Tom Wolfe’s The Right Stuff. They proved to themselves that left to their own devices they would pretty much play video games all day and night.
Don’t worry about the kids, we’re not Luddites. Everyone learned to ski, play electric guitars and trombones, tinker on the 65′ Corvette, work with power tools, play baseball, and yes, shoot guns. .22′s, .223′s, 8mm’s, 10mm’s, .45′s, 30.06′s, shot guns and bows and arrows, clay birds and real birds with real bird dogs. It is pretty funny to see how less cool video games are to a kid who has field dressed a deer. Fake blood and fake video fire power don’t make your ears ring.
My oldest son cut his first CD of original music when he was 14. When a publisher, with kids the same age, looked over the press release of the CD and listened to some of the tracks, he paused, turned to me and said, “your kids don’t play video games do they.” He went on, “my kid plays guitar too, but I can’t get him away from the video games long enough to ever attempt recording a CD.”
Here’s how I taught my kids the value of money and why they never spent their money on video games (we never gave our kids an allowance, they did get paid for doing projects) My oldest was a good guitar player but pretty shy. I knew that if he played in front of a warm crowd it would help him relax in front of people. I suggested that he take a guitar and an amp and some Jeff Golub CD’s downtown and busk by playing along with Jeff and his band. He talked to three businesses that had power outlets on the street, his barber, a bank and a gym. He would play for a few hours and people would toss money in his guitar case. In our little town, pop. 25,000 he made about $20 dollars per hour at first. He said, “dad, they’re paying me to practice.” I said, “you entertain and create a festive atmosphere, they enjoy it, appreciate it and are willing to compensate you. That’s why they call it trade. As he got better and entertained more he made $50 per hour. On evenings when they held art walks he made $100 per hour. On a few festival days he would make $300 per hour. Then people asked him to play at weddings, etc. He opened a checking account at the bank he played in front of and he filed a tax return at age 15. But, here is how he learned the value of money. I told him, ” your parents will never tell you what to do with the money you make and we will never question what you choose to spend it on. You earned it, you know what it takes to make more of it and the only way to know what it is worth is to trade it for something you want worse than money.” If that thing costs $600, all you have to do is decide if it is worth 10 hours of playing guitar.” I don’t know if if he ever bought a video game machine. I don’t think so. He did get his first day job out of high school with an electronics equipment manufacturer in our town, on the strength of his CD and his relaxed sales style and knowledge of music. He has had his own apartment since the day he turned 18 and is still at the same company after 4.5 years. He sells equipment to people all over the world and 48 weekends a year his band plays gigs all over the state. He has never asked me for a dime and last summer he spent part of his vacation helping me build an ATV bridge over a stream. I was happy to pay him $100 per day for a 16 hour day plus meals.
Next son was 10 years old (don’t worry there’s only two kids) and wanted to make some money selling eggs door to door. Had always sold coupon books door to door to pay for baseball. No fear in this son, a natural salesman. Top coupon book saleskid in baseball ($1500 worth per year). OK, we don’t have chickens, so how are you going to buy eggs low and sell them high. They’re fragile, they transport poorly on your bike and most people already have them in the fridge. Koolaid stand never seems to make much money. But, in the back yard is a raspberry patch. When your Mom is done picking for her jam maybe you can sell the surplus. (We are not gardeners, we live in town, but the only thing that seems to grow out back is raspberries, no fertilizer, no bug spray, just wild raspberries.) Mom strikes a deal, if I help you pick I get half the earnings, if you do all the picking you keep all the earnings. Son gets the trays and checks at the grocery store for the going rate. $3 dollars per half pint. He asks me for a small favor. “Dad, would you make me a couple of nice signs for each side of the coaster wagon?” “Sure,” I say, “what are you going to charge?” “$3 per half pint.” “Hmm, can I make a suggestion? Charge $4 and add the word organic to your sign. See how that flies down at the corner. If they don’t sell you can always lower the price.”
25 minutes later 10 year old son returns with $200 in his pocket and an empty coaster wagon. “Dad, they were screeching their breaks to stop and running at me with twenty dollar bills. I told the ones who didn’t get any that I’d be back tomorrow at the same time.” I give the same speech about the value of money. ” Spend it as you see fit, you know how to make more.” Son opens trustee savings account at bank, sells raspberries for two weeks, never buys video game machine. Starts producing videos his junior year in high school. Is now a freshman in college studying film, does cold call selling on the phone three nights per week and is a paid intern 16 hours per week at the local PBS station. Also helped me on the bridge project for $100 per day, dawn to dusk, plus meals.
Hold on, we never paid for cars or gas or insurance or cell phones either. I told my boys the reason parents are always nagging and crabbing about those expenses is because they are paying for all that stuff for their kids. It’s like the Holiday Inn. Do kids buy $500 smart phones and pay for the service and overages? No. That is why you see them talking on the phone all day and why the parents are steamed about the bill. Kids call for free!
My son in college owns a bike, (no car, hey he can buy any car he’s willing to pay for) students stop him all the time
and ask him about his cool bike, “coolest on campus” says he, (bought at a garage sale for $5). If his bike gets stolen, hey, it cost him $5. He says, “Dad, students park $3,000 bikes in the bike rack to ride from the dorm to class and back. And then leave them out in the snow.
It is OK to tell your kids that some things just are not going to happen. As the above stories reveal, we did plenty without video games, plus we went on trips and spring breaks and summer vacations and all that. But, I do recall that at a certain age I had to make a very solemn announcement one morning at the breakfast table. “It is most unfortunate and a very unfair twist of fate and just plain bad luck all the way around, but you children have been born into a family that will do nothing to support, pay for, encourage, condone, nor promote your interest in the game of ice hockey. When a child plays ice hockey the whole family plays ice hockey and you have sadly picked the wrong parents if you were hoping to become the next toothless, brawling, bloodied hockey star. Besides, 18 miles round trip on icy unplowed roads for 4:00am ice time seven days a week is not in the schedule. Wishing that the family policy on this was different is kind of like wishing that the sky wasn’t blue, you are on the wrong planet. Any questions? Please pass the pancakes.” (Note: I did grow up in Wisconsin and loved Badger hockey games at Dane County Coliseum but we only have semi-pro knothead hockey here.)
How did those kids get so savvy about the value of money? Like the publisher said, “your kids don’t play video games, do they.” No, and a few other things too.
Posted by JTD on February 11, 2012 at 5:58 am | permalink |
Follow-up to above post. We had dinner with our oldest son last Sat. (now 22) before his band played a gig at a nearby resort. I asked him if he ever bought a video game machine or played video games, answer, “no.” Ironically, his day job entails selling very expensive audio equipment to gamers all over the world. But, thats like in a bar, there’s always two types of people at the party, one is buying the booze and the other is selling the booze.
Not like I’m telling you anything top secret here, but bands in bars are part of the sales team. Also know as the “draw” or more comically as the “aerobic instructors”.
Posted by JTD on February 17, 2012 at 4:04 pm | permalink |